Schwab-TDA Merger: Thoughts, Rumors, Sightings...

[MerryDay]

Think about it.
ToS is on the TDA servers.
As of June 1st, those of us that were notified; will be on Schwab's servers using our Schwab username and password.

The TDA clients who were converted to Schwab in the February batch, have stated, that their Schwab username and passwords do not work on the TDA products (they were not previous ToS users).
So, it would seem that schwabbies, do not have access to the ToS platform.

You could be correct. Maybe over the Memorial Day Weekend, they are migrating the ToS platform over to Schwab or migrating the Schwab accounts over to TDA.

However, all the "official" correspondence received by those of us, who are being converted to schwabbies, has stated that is not happening.

What most members have suggested, is create a new account
DO NOT CONNECT THE ACCOUNTS!
Move all your saved scripts, grids, charts, and watchlists to the new account.
No, there is no mass migration tool available for our scripts. This will involve a lot of effort.
But better to be safe than sorry.

Just a reminder, this does not affect all ToS users.
This ONLY pertains to those that have received notification that their accounts, open positions, and cash balances are being transferred over to new Schwab accounts over Memorial Day weekend.

 

[halcyonguy]

Think about it.
ToS is on the TDA servers.
As of June 1st, those of us that were notified; will be on Schwab's servers using our Schwab username and password.

The TDA clients who were converted to Schwab in the February batch, have stated, that their Schwab username and passwords do not work on the TDA products (they were not previous ToS users).
So, it would seem that schwabbies, do not have access to the ToS platform.

You could be correct. Maybe over the Memorial Day Weekend, they are migrating the ToS platform over to Schwab or migrating the Schwab accounts over to TDA.

However, all the "official" correspondence received by those of us, who are being converted to schwabbies, has stated that is not happening.

What most members have suggested, is create a new account
DO NOT CONNECT THE ACCOUNTS!
Move all your saved scripts, grids, charts, and watchlists to the new account.
No, there is no mass migration tool available for our scripts. This will involve a lot of effort.
But better to be safe than sorry.

Just a reminder, this does not affect all ToS users.
This ONLY pertains to those that have received notification that their accounts, open positions, and cash balances are being transferred over to new Schwab accounts over Memorial Day weekend.

thank you @MerryDay for the merger info. i haven't been paying attention like i should be.

copying user studies to your computer
https://usethinkscript.com/threads/best-way-to-save-lines-of-code.14973/#post-122479

 

[Trader Raider]

Maybe over the Memorial Day Weekend, they are migrating the ToS platform over to Schwab or migrating the Schwab accounts over to TDA.

Perhaps I am one of the Memorial Day migrants. Are you guys seeing "thinkorswim web" login links on your account page? The new TOS web interface is rather bare bones from what I see. So is the quick start guide.

Don't want to spread FUD, however it may be wise to save any customized code that you don't want to lose. If there is a way to access it on the new web interface, I'm not seeing it. I guess it's a matter of whether you trust that it reappears after migration is complete.

Best wishes, and happy holiday weekend to all who are celebrating

 

[BenTen]

Perhaps I am one of the Memorial Day migrants. Are you guys seeing "thinkorswim web" login links on your account page? The new TOS web interface is rather bare bones from what I see. So is the quick start guide.

Don't want to spread FUD, however it may be wise to save any customized code that you don't want to lose. If there is a way to access it on the new web interface, I'm not seeing it. I guess it's a matter of whether you trust that it reappears after migration is complete.

Best wishes, and happy holiday weekend to all who are celebrating

The web interface is almost useless. It's only good for managing your positions and placing trades. It does not give you access to custom scripts.

 

[Max911]

Has anyone here already migrated their account to Schwab to confirm if we can continue to use TOS platform as usual? Or should we look for an alternative platform? tradestation? ninjatrader? other?

 

[MerryDay]

One of my TDA accounts migrated to Schwab in the Memorial Day group.
That account can no longer use the ToS app.
TDA has confirmed those who have migrated to Schwab will not have access to the ToS app until early 2024.

GOOD NEWS: All TDA accounts which regularly use the ToS app, who are approved for trading futures and options are being migrated in the last group, which is slated to transitiion early 2024. This group will see no disruption in the use of the ToS app.

Every TDA account has been assigned a migration date. I found out the dates for the migration of my other accounts from my local Schwab broker. I do not know if ToS support has access to Schwab Transition information.

If you are being transitioned in the 4th of July or Labor Day groups, you already received notice.
If you have not gotten a Transition Notice, that means you are not being moved until close to the end of the year which means you will not experience significant disruption.

@Max911

 

[easyman]

One of my TDA accounts migrated to Schwab in the Memorial Day group.
That account can no longer use the ToS app.
TDA has confirmed those who have migrated to Schwab will not have access to the ToS app until early 2024.

GOOD NEWS: All TDA accounts which regularly use the ToS app, who are approved for trading futures and options are being migrated in the last group, which is slated to transitiion early 2024. This group will see no disruption in the use of the ToS app.

Every TDA account has been assigned a migration date. I found out the dates for the migration of my other accounts from my local Schwab broker. I do not know if ToS support has access to Schwab Transition information.

If you are being transitioned in the 4th of July or Labor Day groups, you already received notice.
If you have not gotten a Transition Notice, that means you are not being moved until close to the end of the year which means you will not experience significant disruption.

@Max911

So what does this mean.... you/we will NO LONGER can use THINKSCRIPT ...
Sorry I am on the last batch so want to prepare for w/o thinkscript life... LOL

 

[MerryDay]

So what does this mean.... you/we will NO LONGER can use THINKSCRIPT ...
Sorry I am on the last batch so want to prepare for w/o thinkscript life... LOL

GOOD NEWS: All TDA accounts which regularly use the ToS app, who are approved for trading futures and options are being migrated in the last group, which is slated to transitiion early 2024. This group will see no disruption in the use of the ToS app.

 

[timing]

GOOD NEWS: All TDA accounts which regularly use the ToS app, who are approved for trading futures and options are being migrated in the last group, which is slated to transitiion early 2024. This group will see no disruption in the use of the ToS app.

@Max911

Accounts have approved for option trading in ToS or TDA are margin accounts. These account have $25K daily balance requirement to day trade options. But in Schwab, cash accounts can day-trade options without the $25K requirement.
I am wondering the margin accounts in ToS will stay as margin accounts in Schwab or not. Or do we have choice to turn into cash accounts in Schwab and still can day trade options.

 

[MerryDay]

Accounts have approved for option trading in ToS or TDA are margin accounts. These account have $25K daily balance requirement to day trade options. But in Schwab, cash accounts can day-trade options without the $25K requirement.
I am wondering the margin accounts in ToS will stay as margin accounts in Schwab or not. Or do we have choice to turn into cash accounts in Schwab and still can day trade options.

Once your account is transferred over to Schwab. You get a new account number.
You become a Schwab client.
You will have full access to all Schwab account preferences.

 

[wolf2]

Once your account is transferred over to Schwab. You get a new account number.
You become a Schwab client.
You will have full access to all Schwab account preferences.

Once migrated, and you are using TOS under Schwab, will my custom indicators be migrated? Can I create new custom indicators? If any can answer with a definite yes they can to either of this question I'd like to know. TIA.

 

[MerryDay]

Once migrated, and you are using TOS under Schwab, will my custom indicators be migrated? Can I create new custom indicators? If any can answer with a definite yes they can to either of this question I'd like to know. TIA.

The short answer is yes,
When you migrate to Schwab
AND
When the ToS data migrates to Schwab, all your custom indicators will be available, and you will be able to create new custom indicators.

The timing of the WHENs is what gets tricky.

By the end of the day:
Look for a post after this one with an update on the merger. Exciting stuff is happening!

 

[MerryDay]

Update: The TDA / Schwab Merger

Schwab has had a few missteps.
ToS Support was not given the plan; so they gave out bad information.
So many of the ToS users, who have been migrated to Schwab; were shocked to find that they lost access to the ToS app in the short-term.

What have we learned:
Yes, the Schwab Trading Interface is really that bad.

The question of the year:
When you are migrated, will your access to the ToS app be disrupted?

The answer:
If you have already migrated or received notice that you are migrating;
Yes, you have lost, or will soon lose, access to the TDA version of the ToS app in the short-term.

For those, who are migrating toward the end of the year; the Schwab schedule calls for NO DISRUPTION in access to the ToS app!

Encouraging Signs--
Schwab has announced:
A BETA ToS platform will be available on Schwab, immediately after Labor Day.
What we Schwabbies have been told:

1. the Schwab ToS platform won't actually do anything yet.​

2. no trade execution available​

3. no account balances​

4. none of our ToS saved studies, charts, or any other information stored on TDA servers has been migrated, yet.​

​

This is a huge step! The app migration to Schwab will be finished in a matter of days.
While the user data hasn't been migrated yet; the app is going up!
Any bugs will be worked out. This is great news!

Schwab's announcement should assuage the fears of the majority of ToS users being migrated at the end of the year.
Many of them have had fears that they would face the disruption.

Other news:
If you are a iphone mobile app user, you have seen Schwab cutting back on functionality in the last series of updates. More good news, many of the lost buttons are being returned in the next update.
BUT take this with a grain of salt, this information comes from ToS Support. Who, unfortunately, seem to be the last to know about what Schwab is actually doing.

 

[scott69]

Any idea how many actual thinkorswim users there are currently? I tried googling, but couldn't find any data on the subject. Thanks, Scott

 

[MerryDay]

Any idea how many actual thinkorswim users there are currently? I tried googling, but couldn't find any data on the subject. Thanks, Scott

The numbers were published 3yrs ago when the merger was first announced.
I do not remember them, off-hand.

Self-directed traders using TDA's APIs or the ToS app are not insignificant, but we are not a large percentage of the overall clients that Schwab gained in the merger.

Schwab's primary focus throughout most of this year has been on migrating the managed portfolio clients.
They are Schwab's focus, bread and butter, and greatest profit center.

 

[graf]

The numbers were published 3yrs ago when the merger was first announced.
I do not remember them, off-hand.

Self-directed traders using TDA's APIs or the ToS app are not insignificant, but we are not a large percentage of the overall clients that Schwab gained in the merger.

Schwab's primary focus throughout most of this year has been on migrating the managed portfolio clients.
They are Schwab's focus, bread and butter, and greatest profit center.

I don.t have them manage my portfolio. That must be why they told me I would migrate in 2024

 

[spartan.ts]

Rumor has it that Schwab might be doing financial tightening to avoid chapter 13...

Thoughts?

 

[Max911]

Rumor has it that Schwab might be doing financial tightening to avoid chapter 13...

Thoughts?

 

[MerryDay]

Rumor has it that Schwab might be doing financial tightening to avoid chapter 13...

Thoughts?

Yeah, that's the thing about rumors. They are just rumors.
Schwab filed one of the strongest 10k's in the Financial Sector:
https://content.schwab.com/web/retail/public/about-schwab/SEC_Form10k_2022.pdf

I am not a lover of Schwab. Nor was I a lover of TDA.
I would have been happy, if ToS stayed a TastyTrade app.

TDA never upgraded our platform from its antiquated single-threaded java base.
Schwab has cut functionality to save server resources.
I ain't feeling the love.

But any rumors that Schwab is on the brink of failure is not backed by any GAAP principles.

The regional bank failures did require that Schwab to make alternate cash flow choices as shown in @Max911's post above. But to understand the effect on the balance sheet; you need to look at the spreadsheet's last column. For everyone else in @Max911's table, these more expensive borrowings accounted for the majority of their loans. For Schwab, they were a mere 11%.
It was a short-term one-time measure due to unprecedented events.

 

[MerryDay]

The Merger Is Done:
The move of almost 4million clients and $1.4trillion in assets over to Schwab went without a hitch.
This has earned Schwab, a huge atta-boy from the governing bodies and financial community.
https://www.barrons.com/advisor/art...-ameritrade-advisor-client-migration-490da7f6

Schwab did see an attrition rate of 4% of TDA clients, who chose to not move to Schwab. But as they budgeted for 5%. They are counting this as a huge win.

With most of the merger completed; they can finish laying off thousands of TDA employees, while keeping the best from both sides. There is expected to result in ~$500million in economies of scale savings:
https://riabiz.com/a/2023/8/22/char...mental-500-million-synergy-in-2024-and-beyond

Long-term, they see huge profit jumps
https://riabiz.com/a/2022/10/27/sch...ngineers-in-the-wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time

Love them or hate them, the overwhelming success of this merger has made Schwab a powerhouse, who will be a major mover of the financial sector.

Schwab's profit centers are its portfolio-managed clients. Those are who were moved this past weekend.
They are on whom, the merger has been declared a success.
Self-assisted clients like us on the ToS platform will never be their primary focus.


Schwab has said all the right words, about the future viability of the ThinkOrSwim app.
But will we continue to suffer the benign neglect that we were subjected to under TDA?
I think we will.

To re-write ToS onto a multi-threaded base would be a HUGE undertaking. Requiring it to be re-written from scratch. I don't see what incentive Schwab has to do that.

ToS can't grow given the constraints of its single threaded base.
It won't be able to utilize data feeds as they continue to grow more robust.
It will never be able to use arrays, which are necessary for cross-tabulating vast amounts of data.
It won't be able to incorporate the AI programming that we are beginning to see be used elsewhere.

It will take many years, but ToS will become a dinosaur, that slowly becomes extinct.

But in the meantime, I will continue to use ToS as my charting & analysis app.
There simply is nothing else out there that is comparable for the price (free).
And the other platforms don't have this forum. That's huge. We can be self-assisted traders, because we have each other to learn from. So I will be sticking with ToS.