I have reached the end of the World and see the place I started in ThinkOrSwim

[antwerks]

I have reached MY answer to an important question, and I am not alone in asking it — many experienced traders here on this site eventually reach this exact realization,

Most indicators are derived from the same data (price and volume), and many are just variations of each other — meaning they tend to behave similarly, especially during the same market regimes.

I have written or adjusted over 200 scripts in the 2 years I have started using TOS. I have in theory made a “sandwich” about as many ways there is to make a “sandwich” and I have come to realize, even though one may taste better to me than others, that they are all the same “sandwich”.

Why Many Indicators "Act the Same"

1. They’re all based on price and/or volume.

Whether it's RSI, MACD, Stochastic, or CCI, they're just manipulating highs, lows, closes, averages, and ranges.
Most of them are just different smoothing techniques applied to price behavior.

1. Indicators lag — and they often confirm the same thing.

Many indicators are reactive, not predictive. They confirm momentum, trend, or volatility after price moves. (Like reading the Wall Street Journal and thinking you are now ready for tomorrow trading, lol, NOT)

1. Multiple indicators ≠ more signal.

Using 5 indicators that say “overbought” doesn’t give you 5x the certainty — just the same information 5 times.

So Should You Use Just 1–2 Indicators?
In many cases, yes — but with intentional diversity. Ideally, you want one indicator per category:

Category	Use One Tool	Examples
Trend	Directional bias	Moving Average, ADX
Momentum	Strength of price movement	RSI, MACD, Stochastic
Volatility	Expansion/contraction	ATR, Bollinger Bands
Volume-based	Confirmation of price moves	OBV, VWAP, Accum/Distrib
Price action	Structure/patterns	Candlesticks, pivots, HH/LLs

The Ideal Setup for Clarity
You don’t need 10 indicators — but you do need balance and context. Here’s an example minimalist but high-signal setup:

1. Price Action + EMAs – tells you trend and structure.
2. RSI or Stochastic – shows momentum + potential reversal points.
3. Volume or VWAP – confirms participation.

That’s it. Everything else can clutter, not clarify.

My Final Thought
Instead of stacking indicators, stack edges from different dimensions- price structure, momentum, volatility, and volume. (Maybe throw in MTF for another level of validations)

I have developed a Studies Set, but it includes some VIP scripts that I can not share here. This set has done very well this week and will need others to use it to validate its success rate and profit ratio. My suggestion is you join the VIP section, cheap for what you get. I will be writing up directions for use soon. (the only thing extra I might add are the previous day high and lows, they seem 50% of the time to act as support and resistances)

mod note:

To read more about the importance of non-collinear indicators when creating a strategy:
https://usethinkscript.com/threads/...nt-to-successful-trading-in-thinkorswim.6114/

 

[BenTen]

My Final Thought
Instead of stacking indicators, stack edges from different dimensions- price structure, momentum, volatility, and volume.

This!!!

And thanks for the VIP shoutout

 

[csricksdds]

I have reached MY answer to an important question, and I am not alone in asking it — many experienced traders here on this site eventually reach this exact realization,

Most indicators are derived from the same data (price and volume), and many are just variations of each other — meaning they tend to behave similarly, especially during the same market regimes.

I have written or adjusted over 200 scripts in the 2 years I have started using TOS. I have in theory made a “sandwich” about as many ways there is to make a “sandwich” and I have come to realize, even though one may taste better to me than others, that they are all the same “sandwich”.

Why Many Indicators "Act the Same"

1. They’re all based on price and/or volume.

Whether it's RSI, MACD, Stochastic, or CCI, they're just manipulating highs, lows, closes, averages, and ranges.
Most of them are just different smoothing techniques applied to price behavior.

1. Indicators lag — and they often confirm the same thing.

Many indicators are reactive, not predictive. They confirm momentum, trend, or volatility after price moves. (Like reading the Wall Street Journal and thinking you are now ready for tomorrow trading, lol, NOT)

1. Multiple indicators ≠ more signal.

Using 5 indicators that say “overbought” doesn’t give you 5x the certainty — just the same information 5 times.

So Should You Use Just 1–2 Indicators?
In many cases, yes — but with intentional diversity. Ideally, you want one indicator per category:

Category	Use One Tool	Examples
Trend	Directional bias	Moving Average, ADX
Momentum	Strength of price movement	RSI, MACD, Stochastic
Volatility	Expansion/contraction	ATR, Bollinger Bands
Volume-based	Confirmation of price moves	OBV, VWAP, Accum/Distrib
Price action	Structure/patterns	Candlesticks, pivots, HH/LLs

The Ideal Setup for Clarity
You don’t need 10 indicators — but you do need balance and context. Here’s an example minimalist but high-signal setup:

1. Price Action + EMAs – tells you trend and structure.
2. RSI or Stochastic – shows momentum + potential reversal points.
3. Volume or VWAP – confirms participation.

That’s it. Everything else can clutter, not clarify.

My Final Thought
Instead of stacking indicators, stack edges from different dimensions- price structure, momentum, volatility, and volume. (Maybe throw in MTF for another level of validations)

I have developed a Studies Set, but it includes some VIP scripts that I can not share here. This set has done very well this week and will need others to use it to validate its success rate and profit ratio. My suggestion is you join the VIP section, cheap for what you get. I will be writing up directions for use soon. (the only thing extra I might add are the previous day high and lows, they seem 50% of the time to act as support and resistances)

View attachment 25326


mod note:

Nice commentary from antwerks and a few thoughts of my own. One of the reasons that many indicators "Act the same" is because stocks act the same as they only have three paths to travel i.e. Up/Down/Sideways. Even the market doesn't know and gives it a 50 Delta for ATM with a 50% chance of moving either way. It's true that indicators often confirm the same thing and it's that confirmation that give a clue to its future possible move. The goal should be (IMHO) to have a chart set-up that is pleasing to the eye and is easy to follow (similar to my AGAIG charts https://usethinkscript.com/search/2...1&c[nodes][0]=5&c[title_only]=1&o=replies&g=1
which I find very helpful in the trading process.

I was also interested that you have reached the "end of the world" and am wondering what you see on the other side?

Happy trading as you look at the road already traveled and seek the road ahead as the Heikin Ashi Candles and some indicators may actually provide a clue?

 

[rewardiaz]

Nice commentary from antwerks and a few thoughts of my own. One of the reasons that many indicators "Act the same" is because stocks act the same as they only have three paths to travel i.e. Up/Down/Sideways. Even the market doesn't know and gives it a 50 Delta for ATM with a 50% chance of moving either way. It's true that indicators often confirm the same thing and it's that confirmation that give a clue to its future possible move. The goal should be (IMHO) to have a chart set-up that is pleasing to the eye and is easy to follow (similar to my AGAIG charts which I find very helpful in the trading process.

I was also interested that you have reached the "end of the world" and am wondering what you see on the other side?

Happy trading as you look at the road already traveled and seek the road ahead as the Heikin Ashi Candles and some indicators may actually provide a clue?

I agree—there are no fixed rules for how one should trade. As MerryDay said, find what speaks to you and avoid multicollinearity in your indicators.

Good read here:
https://usethinkscript.com/threads/...nt-to-successful-trading-in-thinkorswim.6114/

 

[antwerks]

Nice commentary from antwerks and a few thoughts of my own. One of the reasons that many indicators "Act the same" is because stocks act the same as they only have three paths to travel i.e. Up/Down/Sideways. Even the market doesn't know and gives it a 50 Delta for ATM with a 50% chance of moving either way. It's true that indicators often confirm the same thing and it's that confirmation that give a clue to its future possible move. The goal should be (IMHO) to have a chart set-up that is pleasing to the eye and is easy to follow (similar to my AGAIG charts which I find very helpful in the trading process.

I was also interested that you have reached the "end of the world" and am wondering what you see on the other side?

Happy trading as you look at the road already traveled and seek the road ahead as the Heikin Ashi Candles and some indicators may actually provide a clue?

On the other side I see simplicity.
And as far as Heikin Ashi (HA) candles, they are a smoothed visualization of price action that can clarify trends and reduce market noise — but they come with important downsides, especially for precision trading or scalping.
For me I use Heikin Ashi for visual trend confirmation, visual filtering of noise and bias anchoring.
I overlay "real" candles (as background or ghost plots) to retain price fidelity. My suggestion and practice are to use indicators based on real price (not HA values) for execution.

Also I think when looking at other people's advice we have to do a translation into how we interpret what variables and factors are being discussed. When analyzing others' chart setups, especially on social media or in trade rooms, there's often an implicit visual or structural “language” being used — and if you’re using Heikin Ashi (HA) instead of regular candlesticks (or vice versa), you’re seeing two different dialects of the same price story.

The "Translation Gap" Between Stock Charts

1. HA vs. Real Candles: Different Messages from the Same Market

Factor	Heikin Ashi	Regular Candlesticks
Trend Clarity	Smooth, persistent color; less noise	Choppy in low-volume/sideways markets
Reversal Signals	Appear later due to averaging	Show reversal quickly (but may be noisy)
Precision	Abstracted from real price	Shows exact open, high, low, close (OHLC)
Emotional Impact	“Feels” calmer, more directional	Can feel chaotic or intimidating in chop

So if someone is showing “bullish engulfing” on real candles, you won’t see that at the same spot on HA — you might still be in a smooth uptrend with no sign of reversal yet.

2. Translation Strategy: Aligning Visual Contexts
When interpreting someone else's chart:

• Ask: Are they using regular or smoothed candles (like HA or Renko)?
• Translate their signals into your framework:
  • Bullish breakout on regular candles → might look like a continuation candle on HA.
  • Doji or reversal wick on candles → may not appear on HA until 2–3 bars later.
• Recognize signal delay in HA: If someone says “price is topping,” it may already be in motion on real candles but not visible yet on HA.

3. Best Practice: Overlay and Translate
If you're using HA:

• Overlay real candles as a transparent background (or vice versa).
• This lets you see the raw market structure and smooth trend logic together.
• You can then interpret others’ signals through your lens without misalignment.

Example Translation
Their chart: “Bearish engulfing on 15-min. Big rejection at supply.”
Your HA chart: No red candle yet. Still green and rising.

Translation: “Real candles are showing a reversal — HA hasn't confirmed yet. If HA flips red next bar, it validates the reversal.”

Neither is wrong, just different and we must realize and interpret the difference.

 

[MerryDay]

mod note:
Raw Price and Raw Volume data is chaotic. And the candlestick patterns such as the doji mentioned, are random, unless at key levels.

For new traders, that "raw data" must be processed into usable information, there are many ways; use of trend and range indicators, etc. Yes, most price/trend analysis introduces lag by definition.

But for new traders the use of Heiken Ashi candles and volume pressure (or relative volume) are the most common because of the ease of display on the ToS platform and the simplicity of understanding.
Because the HA candles depict trend; the HA candlestick patterns that occur are more meaningful and less random.

As @antwerks stated HA candles can be one candle behind reversals but on the other hand; there are many less false choppy reversals as compared to regular candles.

It should also be noted that @csricksdds chart setups do not utilize the slightly-lagging coloring of the HA candles.
The AGAIG chart setups https://usethinkscript.com/search/2...1&c[nodes][0]=5&c[title_only]=1&o=replies&g=1
are painted with momentum, which removes that lag.

Caution: HA candles do NOT reflect the actual close price. Traders must always review the close bid ask prices at the top of the chart before entering/exiting trades.

Read more about Heiken Ashi Candles:
https://usethinkscript.com/threads/heiken-ashi-candles-vs-regular-candles-in-thinkorswim.19711/

To have the best of both worlds as @antwerks mentioned HA candles can be overlaid regular candles:
https://usethinkscript.com/threads/smoothed-heikin-ashi-for-thinkorswim.216/

 

[antwerks]

Everybody looks at in in different “lights” that’s what makes this group so good. Not everyone is right and not everyone is wrong. No matter the indicator it is most likely lagging, experience in your understanding of your technique can increase the prediction odds of where we think the price action might go, but at the end of the day it will always be an educated guess.

 

[antwerks]

Good old Artificial Intelligence