Think or Swim- question about buy and sell simultaneously

[AriD]

I have traded on this platform for 3 years. Recently I was trading gold futures and i received a warning that i was manipulating and was banned for 24hrs.

Let me say at the outset I do not know how to buy and sell at the same time. I guess one would put a buy order in and a sell order in at the same price? But wouldnt that be stupid especially since their commissions are not cheap?

Nevertheless, since the warning I primarily do target with bracket orders, so i automatically get my designated target and a stop added to the trade.

I received another warning and this time they kicked me off the platform for two weeks for manipulating.
I received an email that said the following;
""On December 29, 2021 at 17:00:00, 2 contracts of MCLG2 were executed at a price of $76.73 per security. Buy Order #: 5199232124 Sell Order #: 5199232127.

The trade(s) appears to constitute wash or matched trading, as it resulted in no change in beneficial ownership and/or was conducted in accounts under common control or discretion.

Since this is the second time this activity has occurred in your account, for the next 14 calendar days the account will be restricted to liquidating transactions only.

Manipulative trading practices constitute a serious violation of exchange trading rules. Sometimes traders unknowingly use a strategy that may involve manipulative trading. You can help avoid this, and the potential penalties resulting from it, by familiarizing yourself with the subject. Your business is important to us, and we want to assist you with a reminder of some key points.

What Are Manipulative Trading Practices?
Manipulative trading practices include, but are not limited to, transactions for the purpose of:

• Creating or inducing a false, misleading, or artificial appearance of activity in the market.
• Unduly or improperly influencing the market price.
• Setting a price that does not reflect the true state of the market.
• Trades that result in no change in beneficial ownership.
• Pre-arranged trading with other parties.""

As you can see, they provided a time and a price where a buy order and a sell order were added. But look at the time. They were 9 seconds apart. I dont know about others, but it takes me about 5 seconds to place an order. On the Active Trader, I click on the green buy area and it opens up another box that advises me of the price and the commissions and then i click on send. (i hope i am making sense)

I practically begged them to tell me what i was doing in order to not repeat the process. But they cannot tell me. I said if this is illegal, why is the order allowed to process? I told them if i take a buy trade on TradingView and I already have a sell order running, by hitting the buy order and entering a trade it will automatically close out the sell.

I asked if i could talk to the people who made the allegation, but they said customers are not allowed to talk to them. Can anyone give me guidance on what i am doing wrong so i can trade without fear? I dont trade both at the same time and I am generally a swing trader.

 

[db7597]

Did you ever get an answer about this?

 

[AriD]

Nope. Not one!. I guess an indicator isnt involved so I am on my own?

It has only gotten worse on my end. Recently I was told AGAIN, I was no longer allowed to trade my family account. I had to re-create my own separate account (I already had one that was created when we opened our initial accounts with TD, but they closed it for non activity after 6 months) and so, again, I had to link this new account into the other existing account.

It doesn't make any sense. I have to now move all of the indicators (many paid) from the existing platform to the new platform because it is if I have to start completely fresh. I have never figured out how to use the cloud indicator so i don't use it, but it is still nice to have it on the platform since that is why i became a member.

And of course there is nobody as an advocate on our side to help.

Thanks for asking. Trading can be a very lonely journey.

 

[JoeDV]

I have traded on this platform for 3 years. Recently I was trading gold futures and i received a warning that i was manipulating and was banned for 24hrs.

Let me say at the outset I do not know how to buy and sell at the same time. I guess one would put a buy order in and a sell order in at the same price? But wouldnt that be stupid especially since their commissions are not cheap?

...

It's called cross-trading. Are you using active-trader with auto-send turned on? You might have a bad template (just a guess). Make sure that's turned off and place your trade manually.

 

[AriD]

P.S. It is not just TD Ameritrade where these sort of things happen.

We also trade Forex on OANDA. Last year they changed their policy to add funds so they could accommodate a third party vendor who sold them some sort of crappy system. .

You have to scan your credit card and add it to their system. But what happens when the scan will not work?? Our bank has changed names (Suntrust) and we tried to download a new card. But I cannot get it to work. I contacted the rep and he could not help. So not only can i not add funds, but I cannot close the account because the card on file has been discontinued and they can only put the funds on the card established. Thehits just keep on coming.

 

[AriD]

It's called cross-trading. Are you using active-trader with auto-send turned on? You might have a bad template (just a guess). Make sure that's turned off and place your trade manually.

Thanks JoeDV, but I dont know what it is since I cannot get anyone at TD Ameritrade to help. I just know we dont know how to do what they are accusing us of.

I dont remember if I mentioned already that they will not show me anything because they only provide "help" once in a 6 month period. I already used mine and have to wait another 3 months.

 

[db7597]

Nope. Not one!. I guess an indicator isnt involved so I am on my own?

It has only gotten worse on my end. Recently I was told AGAIN, I was no longer allowed to trade my family account. I had to re-create my own separate account (I already had one that was created when we opened our initial accounts with TD, but they closed it for non activity after 6 months) and so, again, I had to link this new account into the other existing account.

It doesn't make any sense. I have to now move all of the indicators (many paid) from the existing platform to the new platform because it is if I have to start completely fresh. I have never figured out how to use the cloud indicator so i don't use it, but it is still nice to have it on the platform since that is why i became a member.

And of course there is nobody as an advocate on our side to help.

Thanks for asking. Trading can be a very lonely journey.

Can you be more specific in terms of what you are doing that you believe they think is market manipulation? Are you trading from multiple accounts such as buying from one account and selling from another to bracket the market but from two separate accounts? If you can provide a step-by-step list of what you are doing it might make more sense. Market manipulation is a pretty significant claim so they owe you a specific answer. If I understand what you are doing based on what you said, there doesn't seem to be anything that should flag a manipulation accusation, but I'm just a retail trader like you. In all honestly, part of why I'm asking is I want to know what I should watch out for in terms of trading strategies. After I read your post, I called TDA Support and explained my strategy. The person said they don't give legal advice, but he said he didn't see an issue with my strategy the way I use bracket/OCO orders. He did say that if I used the strategy from two separate accounts, it may trigger my account to be flagged for market manipulation.

 

[AriD]

I wish I could be more specific, but all I can say is what they told me. They would not tell me "how" I was doing what I was accused of doing. And as I said, they would not zoom in to show them because they only allow 1 zoom every 6 months. (Great customer service considering they have made over 10 Grand in commissions off us)

They said we were violating a CME rule by buying and selling the same asset. and that it was manipulation. I do not trade on two different charts. I was in the same chart each and every time.

Maybe it is just me? The only thing I can think of is they have some flaw on the platform that they do not want to fix. I suspect my stop was kicked in immediately after the trade was opened because of the volatility? But that should just close it out and not open a new trade. I did this at TradeStation and never had a problem.

When I trade I generally stack trades? Meaning, I buy 2 at the highest price, and as it goes down toward my stop I add a few more. I do this instead of placing all 10 contracts at the first price. They all have their own assigned OCO.

I dont know if that makes sense. When they suspended us from trading the second time, we were told to send an explanation to CME thru them and explain what we were doing. We did. We thought everything was now fine. Nope! This week we received another nastygram telling us we have been cut off from opening any new Futures trades. They said the CME told them I was not allowed to trade my spouse's IRA. I have been trading this for years.

Long story short, I guess if you dont have a 500,000 account, they can treat you any way they want to. I looked on the BBB at reviews and many many people were treated like crap and their accounts were cut off without any reason. You are probably ok with your strategy.