Frustrated and still trying to figure it out....

[jrock8903]

Been trading now for over 3 years off and on... been really dedicated for over a year and seems like all I do is lose money. I've bought/read tons of books, tons of videos, courses, forums, discord groups, etc..... and I'm really struggling.

Network engineer as a career, so very analytical by nature, think I'm making good decisions on entries and setups, but its rough.

Almost busted a $10k account, had a great Jan/23 took my last $300 to $2600 and seemed like my strategy was working, until it didn't. Trading options, mostly SPY and a dozen large caps to get around PDT.

Been trying the End All Be All by @HODL-Lay-HE-hoo! but there is a lot to digest in 121 pages. Seems like as soon as I enter, goes down by about $.10 and never get a decent recovery to even cover fees. With as much as options move, it seems 10% stop can get taken out in one candle.

Really wish Houston had a group of traders to get together and discuss, it's hard doing this without someone to tell you what the heck your doing wrong.

Today was a Break even on one account after being down, and $100 loss on the second. Paper trading just doesn't give the same results it seems as live, but maybe I just need to go back to that for awhile. Does it ever get easier? How does one not go insane? I can see why most fail.... really want to make this work.

 

[BenTen]

It only gets easier if you know what you're doing wrong and keep your emotion out of the trade.

If you already know what you're doing wrong, but you're always attempting to make the same mistake, it will never yield a different result.

Trading can be a challenging endeavor and requires a lot of patience, discipline, and practice.

One thing that might be helpful for you is to evaluate your risk management strategies.

It's possible that you haven't found the right approach yet. Keep learning, and don't be afraid to take a step back and practice with smaller amounts of money until you feel more confident in your approach.

Good luck!

 

[Cybersloth]

I find far too much noise in any increment smaller than daily, and there is frankly much more money on a daily chart than with smaller increments anyway, particularly if you're trading options as the time-decay factor is a substantial tailwind which traders probably aren't optimally exploiting if they're holding positions for minutes or hours as opposed to days or, preferably, weeks. So, consider sticking with a daily chart if you're not already doing so. Were you only exploiting BULLISH moves during the generally bearish market between January '22 and '23, there were several opportunities which were large enough to exploit for more than a living wage using options or futures on the major indexes. Another such opportunity is underway the past week or so, incidentally.

 

[floydddd]

if PMs were allowed, i would tell you where to go, but failing that here, cybersloth is right: go daily, skip intraday. i might add: skip options and go instead to 2x and 3x ETFs. i might further add: skip trend trading. that's right: dump all those moving averages. by the time (most folks) get on the trend, the trend is over.

do what instead?

mean reversion. i'm telling you, for the little guy, it's the only best game in town. heck, i think that's the way that merryday trades. i mean, 99% of all indicators are in some way related to trend. If they're so great, how come we keep torturing them into some new and better permutation of the latest and greatest and then chuck that in the trash after ten minutes? or ten hours? or ten grand lost?

i am convinced that the only way to get an edge is to do what the fewest people do and that'd be, for instance, buying CWEB on a daily chart when it crosses below or gets close to keltner bands set to -3. painful to do, awful painful, but i have done it with CWEB and a few others, tho not with the consistency that i'd like. man o man is it hard to buy when everybody is selling. killer hard. but it can be done.

i found this guy online who is great at it, to the degree that lots of times i think to myself, nahhhhhh, can't be, no way. but i've both piggy backed him and done it on my own and come out ahead.

don't get me wrong. i am doing this live. but the money amount is tiny tiny tiny. i trade muni funds like ORNAX with most of my so-called pile -- trend trade them, i mean, because muni funds do trend. but there's not a lot of action in them, only consistency, so i play mean reversion to get my blood flowing, using money it wouldn't hurt me to lose, should all this blathering turn out to be nothing but hot air.

you'll have to excuse me today and perhaps MD will axe this response but ... i had a hernia operation a few hours ago and am still under the influence of the knock out drops.

onward, wobblingly.

 

[Splinter]

If you're uncomfortable with the trades you're taking I think lowering your risk could be a good thing. Maybe investigating futures, especially micros, could be worthwhile. What's good about futures is they move and can offer more than a few good trading opportunities. With micros the risk is small and you're able to work on your edge and also the psychological aspect of trading. Granted ToS fees for trading micros make them impractical for all but learning and testing so I'd consider it tuition in a sense.

 

[MerryDay]

Been trading now for over 3 years off and on... been really dedicated for over a year and seems like all I do is lose money. I've bought/read tons of books, tons of videos, courses, forums, discord groups, etc..... and I'm really struggling.

Network engineer as a career, so very analytical by nature, think I'm making good decisions on entries and setups, but its rough.

Almost busted a $10k account, had a great Jan/23 took my last $300 to $2600 and seemed like my strategy was working, until it didn't. Trading options, mostly SPY and a dozen large caps to get around PDT.

Been trying the End All Be All by @HODL-Lay-HE-hoo! but there is a lot to digest in 121 pages. Seems like as soon as I enter, goes down by about $.10 and never get a decent recovery to even cover fees. With as much as options move, it seems 10% stop can get taken out in one candle.

Really wish Houston had a group of traders to get together and discuss, it's hard doing this without someone to tell you what the heck your doing wrong.

Today was a Break even on one account after being down, and $100 loss on the second. Paper trading just doesn't give the same results it seems as live, but maybe I just need to go back to that for awhile. Does it ever get easier? How does one not go insane? I can see why most fail.... really want to make this work.

You can't gauge your performance on the month of January.

The "January Effect" makes it difficult to lose money.

We are in a bear market. You need to watch what the markets are doing.
Jump in on those Bear Rallies and know when to sit out.

As everyone else mentioned, if you are still struggling, you should consider changing timeframes and instruments.

Options are the riskiest route.
Micros are great but not the place to learn because the fees will eat your profits.

Consider trading 1 share of stock.
Keep a journal of what worked. What didn't.

Start here:
https://usethinkscript.com/threads/is-your-chart-missing-long-term-trend-verification.14770/

Make sure you are doing this:
https://usethinkscript.com/threads/...robability-trend-indicator.14700/#post-122721

Does your chart setup have these components:
https://usethinkscript.com/threads/basics-for-developing-a-good-strategy.8058/

If you are looking at a trade, come post it on discord.
https://usethinkscript.com/threads/how-to-join-our-discord-chatroom.4897/
Explain why it looks good to you; share your setup,
we will chime in.

 

[bobomatic]

I agree that ToS micros are expensive. I negotiated a better price, but still a they're a little more than their competitors. However, let me add some perspective to the above comment about how ToS micros are "impractical for all but learning and testing".

I've looked at alternative platforms to trade futures. Yes, their fees are much less, but what I've found is that for cheaper fees, you're giving up what is arguably one of the better platforms that has, on the whole, better stability, reliability and a script community that is unbeatable. I've tried to trade the other platforms and while they're not horrible, they take some getting used to and are, IMHO, very clunky. Some easier than others, but still, no match for ToS. It's possible to adapt to another platform and pay less, but I just don't want to. I'll pay a little more.

I'm retired, living in South America. I trade micros from here. I've got over 30 years trading in the markets and at my age now, I'm scaling back and learning to enjoy life more. This means, I take less risk and lower my stress by trading micros. I can easily trade for a 1k profit a month. With roughly 20 trading days a month, fifty bucks a day net of commissions. Sometimes more, sometimes less. That's damn good money down here on top of my retirement. Just a spitball, but that's probably equivalent to 3k in the US.

Anyway, my point is, I wouldn't write off ToS micros as "impractical for all but learning and testing". Yes, their good for that too, but they can turn a nice little profit as you develop skills. They help keep greed in check and force you to develop key trading skills without bankrupting your account. You know you're ready to graduate to regular contracts when you can consistently make money month after month while building an emotionally mature trading mindset. Good luck.

 

[agorena123]

Totally get where you are, there myself. I know there are successful traders out there so I began to do some research to see what others were doing that aligned with my approach - day trading with options, primarily $SPY or the other usual large cap tech names. I found Twitter to be a good source due the number of posts with winning trade posts you could verify through post history, screenshots, discord posts, etc.

In my research I found two general strategies that were most often used by the traders posting consistent wins - nothing new and nothing indicator heavy.

The first was price action off of "key levels". I found key levels were calculated differently by different posters and their methods not often accurately described, but basically daily and intra-day levels of support and resistance. Trades taken when price bounced or rejected off these levels. Some of these folks are scary good at this method.

The second successful method was basically some form of pull back to the trend, or break and retest. This is where I saw more indicator use to identify trends and it is mostly moving averages. Timeframes are short 1,2,3 minute charts and using bear/bull flags to identify the pull back and break out for the trade if it happens. Saty and Ripster clouds and charts were common with some of these folks. The other was a 2min chart with 13, 48, 200 ema's and previous day's high/lows for key levels. Ranging days are tough for this approach.

Again nothing new with either of these two approaches as they've existed forever. For now, I'm focusing on the pull back / break and retest approach and working with the Saty cloud and ATR levels as well as the cleaner 13.48, 200 ema set. I'm in the clear lake area of town btw.

 

[SilverWolf]

I just wanted to tell you my understanding of the market. Maybe it can help you. First off i see the market as a battleground. My money are my military. I get this idea from the fact that when you win on a trade someone lost. You are literally taking someones money with a click of the button now days. Your money is used to take ground take over the enemy position and convert the enemy troops to your side. With that said you must understand when youve lost.. The enemy has many tactics to take your troops. Many of the strategies that youve learned on here or youtube. Guess what the enemy can use them to set traps, like a kill box. Lure you in and surround your troops then poof theyre gone. Converted to the enemys side. Now do you have many ground troops, tanks, artillery, and etc? Or do you have snipers? What is more comfortable to your style of trading. Think of the chart as a dynamic changing battlefield. The enemies are there. Promise you there are bots creating traps. Smart snipers. Huge armies that can push the price up or down till you give up. Stop thinking about money as a prize. Think of what is happening.. why is it happening? Give the stock youre trading a personality, learn who is fighting.. what days, what time, what movements?? How will you know? Look, youve gotta live this its not about watching a video and copying. The enemy is watching the same video. AND theyre waiting for you. Sure sometimes it'll work dont get me wrong. Sometimes there are others fighting the same battle as you in the same attack. This can give you momentum.. and that strategy could work. Anyway.. I hope my perspective could help you bit.

 

[traderbradg]

Just a thought, I am basically in the same boat but i recently went to ninja trader and trading micros and developing a automated strategy which has helped me learn more about the technicals of trading. I am spending more time trading on market replay and live micros and have found it to be great for me.. Just a thought good luck

 

[zeek]

A few thoughts, don’t give up. It takes time to find a real edge and the journey there can be really challenging. It took me about three years before i found my edge and i was struggling badly up until then.
I recommend journal all your losses trades and see if you can find patterns. Like someone said earlier, you need to know exactly what it is that you are doing wrong in order to fix it. Can be lack of edge but can also be a mental thing or both.
Reducing risk is a good start when struggling so i would trade with only very small size until i’ve proven to myself i can find some consistency.

Good luck!

 

[floydddd]

i am 100% with merryday on the idea of trading one share of stock or some tiny amount of money and doing it live. paper trading is only good up to a point and then it's a waste of time. we're in a no commission era on stocks etc so why not take advantage of that? you can buy one share of leveraged semiconductor etf SOXL for like $17 and just start trying to figure out how you want to trade and your strengths/weaknesses. me, i'd look at daily charts. seems to me 99% of the people here are day trading but that's a tough game to win, much more difficult than the longer perspective. i think. and i hear. but, of course, it's not nearly as sexy or as action packed.

the other thing about an etf like SOXL is, if you trade it enough, you'll get to know it. One guy I'm familiar with is making a ton of money just trading that one etf. I'm not as good as he is and not as disciplined or smart. but i see the virtue in his approach and i'm learning, slowly slowly and, hopefully, with time, surely.

again, and i think merryday will back me up on this, you don't need a ton of indicators on your chart, because most of them are just variations on the same theme. MD can explain this better than I can but ... less is more. And there is no holy grail. And no single right way. There's only what works for you and your psychology.

 

[HODL-Lay-HE-hoo!]

Been trading now for over 3 years off and on... been really dedicated for over a year and seems like all I do is lose money. I've bought/read tons of books, tons of videos, courses, forums, discord groups, etc..... and I'm really struggling.

Network engineer as a career, so very analytical by nature, think I'm making good decisions on entries and setups, but its rough.

Almost busted a $10k account, had a great Jan/23 took my last $300 to $2600 and seemed like my strategy was working, until it didn't. Trading options, mostly SPY and a dozen large caps to get around PDT.

Been trying the End All Be All by @HODL-Lay-HE-hoo! but there is a lot to digest in 121 pages. Seems like as soon as I enter, goes down by about $.10 and never get a decent recovery to even cover fees. With as much as options move, it seems 10% stop can get taken out in one candle.

Really wish Houston had a group of traders to get together and discuss, it's hard doing this without someone to tell you what the heck your doing wrong.

Today was a Break even on one account after being down, and $100 loss on the second. Paper trading just doesn't give the same results it seems as live, but maybe I just need to go back to that for awhile. Does it ever get easier? How does one not go insane? I can see why most fail.... really want to make this work.

When exactly do you enter the trade... based on what indication of the End all be all setup?
I will share a link to a post in the CC thread in a few. Forget about anything that confuses you concerning labels only see if they are green red gray or yellow dont worry about the words or numbers if they confuse you. But I will post a simplified explanation of trade setups (the 3 main setups I use) that are simple to use. If you blew a 10k account (been there bought a few tshirts) YOUR RISK MANAGEMENT IS NO BUENO. The struggle you are having is likely 90% risk management 10% entry timing.

 

[jrock8903]

Thank you all for the advice, been looking through and trying to digest.

@HODL-Lay-HE-hoo! I totally agree that my Risk Management has been terrible. Most of the account was blown though when I first started on Penny Stocks. Played a few long term, which I had no business doing. I've done much better the past 8 months, but some entries have been off by a little and playing 0 days, got stopped out pretty quickly at 10-15% loss and it all adds up. Seems I also have a tendency to hold too long, when I should have already been out of the play and getting reversed on. Trying to determine when to exit vs let it run is not the easiest. Need to be more diligent on taking profit as I have it and build my small account.

As for the strategy, been trying to play the EMAD off the top or bottom line with the candles exiting out of supply/demand zone, or retest of supply and demand, based upon what I'm seeing with volume/price analysis. Really appreciate all your screen shots. but may be posting some questions.
Decided to paper trade the strategy the last few days with contracts 4-5 days out and that seems to have evened things out for me a bit... today was a good day, things seemed to be a little more volatile today than they have been. Slower moving contracts seems to give me more time to react and decide what to do. Going to continue working with it. Just trying to get consistent.

 

[HODL-Lay-HE-hoo!]

Thank you all for the advice, been looking through and trying to digest.

@HODL-Lay-HE-hoo! I totally agree that my Risk Management has been terrible. Most of the account was blown though when I first started on Penny Stocks. Played a few long term, which I had no business doing. I've done much better the past 8 months, but some entries have been off by a little and playing 0 days, got stopped out pretty quickly at 10-15% loss and it all adds up. Seems I also have a tendency to hold too long, when I should have already been out of the play and getting reversed on. Trying to determine when to exit vs let it run is not the easiest. Need to be more diligent on taking profit as I have it and build my small account.

As for the strategy, been trying to play the EMAD off the top or bottom line with the candles exiting out of supply/demand zone, or retest of supply and demand, based upon what I'm seeing with volume/price analysis. Really appreciate all your screen shots. but may be posting some questions.
Decided to paper trade the strategy the last few days with contracts 4-5 days out and that seems to have evened things out for me a bit... today was a good day, things seemed to be a little more volatile today than they have been. Slower moving contracts seems to give me more time to react and decide what to do. Going to continue working with it. Just trying to get consistent.

I hear you man. As for myself and 0 DTE I had to learn to be patient and enter on a PULLBACK! on a wick with a tight stoploss... thats the secret to not getting killed by your stop loss the other is knowing that it is 0DTE not a swing trade so sell it fast while your up... always nice to have multiple contracts so you can sell most and keep one or two if you think the trend will continue.... but yeah you need to be a disciplined mindless robot when trading zero dte's until then stay away.

When you mention EMAD of the top or bottom and candles exiting a zone - maybe you just skipped over this to save some typing but just incase... over time I have realized that best method for entering a position with EMAD being a factor is not to buy the first bounce off the bottom or top rather when it bounces off the bottom then pulls back and turns up again making a higher low (on EMAD) which is best used on 5min chart and up especially when divergence exists... you have probably seen my screenshots for that one.
And the exiting supply or demand zone... it is best for price to move into a zone then move out of that zone THEN go back and try to re enter that zone .... if it rejects you enter (which would be on a pullback)
and it is also nice when you see buying pressure increasing and selling pressure decreasing leading up to entry on the pullback (or vis versa) but yeah post your questions preferably with screenshots but if not its all good.

The chart I shared today includes a version of TS_V9 that is working extremely well and a lot of entries against the trend are filtered out.

 

[futuresscalper]

check out rande howell, also , stop using your own money , trade with a prop firm, apex is by far the best, trade futures, no pdt rule,, also with prop firm , evaluations are super inexpensive ,, your strategy is very unlikely to be the problem, its your mentality, the psychological aspect is most likely what you are missing. this website is super awesome for indicators, there are litterally hundreds of strategies that work , just simple , 2 ema 12, 20 crossing over vwap works, and risk management , is the key to cracking the code in trading. when you have your mental game down, you will have your risk management down, every trader has considered quitting. it a hard , truly ruthless, game to play, but if you can get the emotional aspect mastered, you can actually make very consistent money, with virtually no risk , provided you trade with a prop firm.